Friday, 20 February 2009

To whom else shall we go ?

  • I guess the cause for a change in discipline within the Roman catholic Church regarding celibacy and priesthood would be my main reason for starting this blog. All the other issues raised within the blog are also important issues of conscience for me. A strange state of affairs really. What can you do if your church ignores or denies your perceived called to ministry within the priesthood ? What if your view on the position of people who are glbt conflicts with the 'official' teaching of the church. What if your view on women's ordination conflicts with church teaching ?


  • Many times in the history of the church has 'official' teaching been the opposite of what the 'official' teaching of the church is today. Slavery in South America was once promoted by the papacy, Jews were persecuted by the church as well as Muslims in the crusades, Gallileo was condemned for saying the earth revolved around the sun, married priests were allowed and believe it or not there was a time the extraordinary form of the mass didn't exist !


  • All these views changed in the course of centuries. This doesn't mean that those views were correct at the time the church held those views so you could say the church taught error - but as we all know the Pope is prevented from teaching error - when he speaks ex cathedra, as head of the church and so on. (depending on who you talk to !) I daren't even mention the principle of 'non-reception' of church teaching by the laity -as in the case of Humanae Vitae. The clergy seem to get away with the principle of non-reception as in the case of John xxiii's Apostolic Constitution 'Veterum Sapientia', where it is expected seminary training should be undertaken in latin.


  • Either all my grumbles above are presently not infallible teaching and therefore could change (married and women priests allowed, people who are lgbt not now 'disordered' - Pope JP II words not mine) given a few hundred years. In conscience then, do I just pray, pay and stay or do I keep raising the issues in the church just to be ignored or do I find a home where the issues raised above don't muddy the waters and I can get on with a relationship with God? Any ideas ? - keep juggling ? ? ?

A prayer by Carlo Carretto expresses some of what I feel at the present time. I reproduce it here out of interest.


"How much I must criticise you, my Church, and yet how much I love you!
You have made me suffer more than anyone and yet I owe more to you than to anyone;
I should like to see you destroyed and yet I need your presence.
You have given me much scandal and yet you alone have made me understand holiness.
Never in this world have I seen anything more compromised, more false, yet never have I touched anything more pure, more generous or more beautiful.
Countless times I have felt like slamming the door of my soul in your face
-and yet, every night, I have prayed that I might die in your sure arms!
No, I cannot be free of you, for I am one with you, even if not completely you.
Then too-where would I go?
To build another church?
But I could not build one without the same defects, for they are my defects.
And again, if I were to build another church, it would be my church, not Christ’s Church. No, I am old enough, I know better."

2 comments:

Mike said...

Mother and Virgin ... Pray for us

Wisdom 7:26 >
"She is the ... unspotted mirror of God's majesty."
Psalm 45:5 >
"The most High hath sanctified His own tabernacle."
Ezechiel 44:2 >
"This gate shall be shut … the God of Israel hath entered in by it."

What saves your soul - Heresy or Catholic Dogma ?

1. Can the Ex-Cathedra Dogma from 20 Catholic Councils be rejected and ignored by the meeting known as the “Vatican-2 council” (1962-1965) ? There are over 200 heresies against Dogma in the V-2 documents.

No it can’t …
Section 12 of Immaculata-one.com

2. Can you get your own soul to Heaven if you don’t know and believe the Ex-Cathedra Dogma of the Catholic Church ?

No you can’t …
Sections 5.1 and 9 of Immaculata-one.com

3. Have you ever seen the Catholic Ex-Cathedra Dogma on automatic excommunication for heresy, ignorance of the Dogma, or for physical participation in a heretical society?

No you haven’t …
Section 13.2 of Immaculata-one.com

4. Have you ever seen the De Fide Catholic Dogma that you must believe to get to Heaven ?

No you haven’t …
Section 3 of Immaculata-one.com

5. Does the Vatican-2 heretic cult, founded in 1965 at the Vatican, have the Office of the Papacy ?

No only the Catholic Church has the Papacy …
Section 13.4 of Immaculata-one.com

6. Does the Catholic writing of Saint Matthew 16:18, the “Gates of Hell” scripture, mean that the Papacy may not fall vacant because of heresy ?

No … the Church defined the “Gates of Hell” as … heresy not prevailing against the Dogma …
Section 13.3 of Immaculata-one.com

7. Is there Catholic Dogma on how to re-enter the Catholic Church after automatic excommunication for heresy or for physical participation in a heretical society such as the vatican-2 or sspx cults?

Yes there is …
Section 19.1 of Immaculata-one.com

8. Can you get to Heaven as a participant in a heretical society which rejects even a single Catholic Dogma … “worshiping” - for example - the “vatican-2 god” or the “sspx god” in their meeting halls ?

No you can’t …
Sections 13.2, 88, 90, 99, and 105 of Immaculata-one.com

9. Was the “Vatican-2 council” of apostasy set up well before 1962 ?

Yes it was …
Sections 20, 20.1, and 20.2 of Immaculata-one.com

10. Is there salvation outside of the Catholic Church and … is one in the Catholic Church if he rejects even a single Dogma of the Church ?

No and no …
Sections 1, 2, 5, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 7, 7.2, 8, and 9 of Immaculata-one.com

Contemplative Catholic said...

oh dear !